OANDA Forex Forum

A history of transparency

OANDA hosts one of the longest-standing forex forums on the web. Since June 2000, our forum has given forex traders a vehicle for sharing views, airing grievances, and learning from each other. Membership in the OANDA Forex Forum comes with searchable access to diverse topic threads dating back to the very first forex forum posts.

Join in on the discussion with fellow OANDA traders by signing in with your existing fxTrade or fxTrade Practice account. If you don’t already have a forex trading account with OANDA, you can begin by registering for one today.


#1 June 16, 2006 13:56:00

SCOGGEX
Member
Member #5527
From: Texas
Registered: 2005-03-31
Posts: 792
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile  

Refutation of Atheism: The Existence of God

Good read...Please note my emphasis

Disclaimer: Please note that in consideration of how offensive GMT felt the title of the topic was, I feel obliged to inform any reader that this was the article's title. I accept full responsibility for the heinous verbage contained in the thread title. Please enjoy and atheists please post, it is usually a fun and interesting topic.

Take a look around you from where you sit. You will notice that everything in the room is "made": the walls, the upholstery, the ceiling, the chair where you sit, the booklet you hold in your hand, the glass on the table and countless other details. None of them happen to exist in your room of their own accord. Even the simple loops of the carpet were made by someone: they did not appear spontaneously or by chance.

A person who is about to read a book knows that it has been written by an author for a specific reason. It would not even occur to him that this book might have come into being by chance. In the same manner, a person who sees a sculpture has no doubt whatsoever that it was made by a sculptor. And not just works of art: even a few bricks resting on top of one another make one think that they must have been brought to rest just so by someone within a certain plan. Therefore, everywhere where there is an order - either small or big - a founder and protector of this order must also exist. If, one day, somebody came forward and said that raw iron and coal came together to form steel by chance, which in turn constructed the Eiffel Tower again by chance, would not he and those who believed him be regarded as insane?

The claim of the theory of evolution, the unique method of denying the existence of God, is no different from this. According to the theory, lifeless atoms formed amino acids by chance, amino acids formed proteins by chance, and finally proteins formed living creatures again by chance. However, the probability of a living creature being formed by coincidence is less than the probability of the Eiffel Tower being formed in the same manner, because even the simplest living cell is more sophisticated than any man-made structure in the world.

How is it possible to think that the balance in the world came about by coincidence when the extraordinary harmony of nature is observable even with the naked eye? It is the most unreasonable claim to say that the universe, each point of which suggests the existence of its Creator, has come into being on its own.

Therefore, there should be a designer of the balance visible everywhere from our body to the farthest corners of the inconceivably vast universe. So, who is this Creator that ordained everything so subtly and created all?

He cannot be any material being present within the universe, because His must be a will that existed before the universe and created the universe therewith. The Almighty Creator is One in Whom everything finds existence, yet Whose existence is without any beginning or end.

Religion teaches us the identity of our Creator Whose existence we discover with our reason. Through what He has revealed to us as religion, we know that He is God, the Compassionate and the Merciful, Who created the heavens and the earth from nothing.

Although most people have the capability to grasp this fact, they spend their lives unaware of it. When they look at a landscape painting, they wonder who its painter is. Later, they praise the artist at length for his beautiful work of art. Despite the fact that they face numerous originals of the natural world he painted the moment they turn around, they still disregard the existence of God, Who is the only owner of all these beauties. In truth, no lengthy research is needed to understand the existence of God. Even if one of us had to live in a room from the time he was born, countless pieces of evidence in this room alone would be enough for him to grasp the existence of God.

The human body so overflows with evidence that it could not be contained in many multi-volumed encyclopaedias. Giving only a few minutes of conscientious thought to it all is enough to understand the existence of God. The present order is protected by God and maintained by Him.

The human body is not the only food for thought. Life abides in every square millimetre of the earth, be it observable by men or not. The world overflows with many living beings, from unicellular organisms to plants, from insects to sea animals, and from birds to human beings. If you take a handful of soil and look at it, even therein you can discover manifold living creatures with diverse characteristics. The same is true also for the air you breathe. Even on your skin, there are many living creatures whose names are unknown to you. In the intestines of all living beings are millions of bacteria or unicellular organisms that help digestion. The animal population in the world is many times greater than the human population. When we also consider the plant world, we see that there is not a single spot on the earth where there is no life. All of these creatures that are spread over an area of millions of square kilometres have different body systems, different lives and different contributions to the ecological balance. It is preposterous to claim that all these have come into existence by chance with no aim or purpose. No living being has come to exist through its own accord or effort. No coincidental happening can ever result in such complicated systems.

All of this evidence leads us to the conclusion that the universe works with a certain "consciousness". What, then, is the source of this consciousness? Surely it is neither the living nor the non-living beings in it. Nor can they be the ones that maintain the harmony and preserve the order. The existence and glory of God reveals itself in countless proofs in the universe. In fact, there is not even a single man on the earth who will not accept this evident reality from the heart. Yet they still deny it "in iniquity and arrogance, though their souls are convinced thereof" as stated in the Qur'an. (The Qur'an, 27:14)

This booklet is written to point out the reality from which some people turn away because their interests are at odds with it, and also to disclose the frauds and senseless deductions on which some systems of thought are based. This is why many diverse subjects are tackled in the booklet.

Those who read this booklet will once more see the indisputable evidence of God's existence and witness that God's existence encompasses all things: the "reason" knows this. Just as He has created this all-pervading order, He is the One Who also maintains it incessantly.

[ June 17, 2006, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: SCOGGEX ]


"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Offline

#2 June 16, 2006 14:10:00

JB2
Member
Member #8807
From: Southern USA
Registered: 2006-06-13
Posts: 80
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile  

Refutation of Atheism: The Existence of God

Stir the pot..

I agree. There is something more going on that we humans just don't yet understand.

As an aside, if "God" did create the uncreated world, where is he besides the manifestation of creation? For example AudioSlave's cornell sings "You gave me life, now show me how to live"..

Is this the best that could be done of all realities, is he dead, or just unable to intervine in life.

What if death were his ultimate gift..

Offline

#3 June 16, 2006 14:27:00

Machiavel
Member
Member #6123
Registered: 2005-07-22
Posts: 4024
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile  

Refutation of Atheism: The Existence of God

Are we proud or are we simply scared to death by death?
We are intelligent.
We have received a thinking mind.
Nevertheless, just a few hundred years ago 'we' thought that Earth was flat. 'We' thought that the sky went round our tiny place and that 'we' are the center of the universe. 'We' believed in a physical heaven and a physical hell, we even believed in a physical limbo!
We need a GOD because WE ARE AFRAID OF DEATH.
If logic is used then one could argue that there is void after death because no one came back to tell the 'good news'.

Now don't start quoting some 'book' to prove any points.
Those who wrote those 'books' were scared to death by death too or they were smart to scare those they wanted to scam. They also invented the 'soul-saving' package and they needed buyers.
Probably they even invented Multi Level Marketing!
[Big Grin]


[ June 16, 2006, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Machiavel ]

Offline

#4 June 16, 2006 14:42:00

Symp
Member
Member #4375
From: USA
Registered: 2004-08-17
Posts: 11097
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile  

Refutation of Atheism: The Existence of God

quote:
Originally posted by SCOGGEX:
According to the theory, lifeless atoms formed amino acids by chance, amino acids formed proteins by chance, and finally proteins formed living creatures again by chance. However, the probability of a living creature being formed by coincidence is less than the probability of the Eiffel Tower being formed in the same manner, because even the simplest living cell is more sophisticated than any man-made structure in the world.[/b]

If you consider that time is limitless, and you also consider the entire universe is itself limitless, it is quite probable that eventually, life would be created by permutations and "chance", somewhere, sometime, somehow.

Then, once the 1st building block was laid out, the rest is "history"!

[ June 16, 2006, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Sympatico ]


They say that the poor are the good guys and the rich are the bad guys. Everyone wants to be bad.

Offline

#5 June 16, 2006 14:54:00

JB2
Member
Member #8807
From: Southern USA
Registered: 2006-06-13
Posts: 80
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile  

Refutation of Atheism: The Existence of God

How do arrive at time limitless? What about before big bang.

And no I'm not talking about the porno. Why is that time can't go but in one direction?

Where, exactly, does the first set of materials inside your own body come from?

Offline

#6 June 16, 2006 14:56:00

tracej
Member
Member #6457
From: Nashville TN, USA
Registered: 2005-09-18
Posts: 2032
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile  

Refutation of Atheism: The Existence of God

quote:
Originally posted by JB2:

Where, exactly, does the first set of materials inside your own body come from?

Budweiser?

Offline

#7 June 16, 2006 15:01:00

JB2
Member
Member #8807
From: Southern USA
Registered: 2006-06-13
Posts: 80
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile  

Refutation of Atheism: The Existence of God

LoL

Better than PBR I guess.

Offline

#8 June 16, 2006 15:07:00

japhy
Member
Member #4166
From: USA - Minnesota
Registered: 2004-07-09
Posts: 2056
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile  

Refutation of Atheism: The Existence of God

http://www.religiousforums.com/

http://beeradvocate.com/forum/


Surrender to the reality that volatility exists, or volatility will introduce you to the reality that surrender exists.

Offline

#9 June 16, 2006 15:09:00

tsch
Member
Member #2407
From: Ohio
Registered: 2003-05-30
Posts: 7153
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile  

Refutation of Atheism: The Existence of God

quote:
If you consider that time is limitless, and you also consider the entire universe is itself limitless, it is quite probable that eventually, life would be created by permutations and "chance", somewhere, sometime, somehow.
Then, once the 1st building block was laid out, the rest is "history"!

The universe is, many astrophysicists believe, probably finite; that is, space probably closes on itself due to curvature from gravitation caused by the presence of dark (presently unverified) matter. Gravity causes curvature of space and dilates time. In practical terms this means that if you departed earth in one direction, and kept going far enough, you'd eventually end up reaching earth from the other side (you wouldn't detect the curvature of space). According to Einstein, time and space itself depend for their existence on the bodies of matter separated from each other. Therefore by present reckoning and Einstein's theories, there was no such thing as space or time before the big bang.

[ June 17, 2006, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: tsch ]


"My son, if sinners entice you, do not consent.." Prov 1:10

Offline

#10 June 16, 2006 15:25:00

snovotny
Member
Member #7829
From: IL
Registered: 2006-02-25
Posts: 4299
Reputation: +  0  -
Profile  

Refutation of Atheism: The Existence of God

Is this a joke thread?

Poor old dead Carl Sagan has already pointed out for the illumination of you, the programmed, that the invention of "god" to solve any "causality gap" is specious: You then have to ask who/what created god? And if you say that god gets to be special "he was always there," well, you can say the same thing about the universe.

Actually, Stephen Hawkings has recently been in the news, and it is mentioned that he is beginning to picture the universe as endless and timeless.

There's always the (highly likely) possibility that there are questions that our simple ape-brains are not able to answer--or even properly address. It's clear that inventing "god" supplies an "answer" for many people in those cases.

Offline

Board footer

Moderator control

Powered by DjangoBB

Loading nanoRep